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Tuesday, January 17, 2006

Top 40 Angels

At some point I think I told the Rev that I was going to give him a ballot of the top 40 Angels of all time, but that I wanted to do it sabermetrically. Well, I tarried too long and the list below didn't make it, but for posterity --

RankPlayerWin
Shares
RankPlayerWin
Shares
1.Tim Salmon227.221.Doug Decinces 85.2
2.Brian Downing225.022.Albie Pearson 84.7
3.Jim Fregosi222.823.Clyde Wright 80.7
4.Chuck Finley184.024.Jarrod Washburn 80.5
5.Bobby Grich183.825.Adam Kennedy 79.4
6.Garret Anderson179.426.Bob Boone 78.7
7.Nolan Ryan 147.527.Bobby Knoop 77.9
8.Darin Erstad146.328.Andy Messersmith 74.3
9.Wally Joyner121.029.Bengie Molina 74.1
10.Chili Davis114.630.Rick Reichardt 70.4
11.Frank Tanana113.931.Kirk McCaskill 69.3
12.Mike Witt 110.132.Jack Howell 69.1
13.Troy Percival109.933.Buck Rodgers 68.3
14.Troy Glaus104.734.Reggie Jackson 67.4
15.Rod Carew102.835.Gary DiSarcina 65.1
16.Jim Edmonds 94.536.Fred Lynn 63.7
17.Don Baylor 94.037.Sandy Alomar 62.0
18.Dick Schofield 90.838.Leon Wagner 60.3
19.Mark Langston 90.739.Dave Chalk 58.6
20.Dean Chance 87.740.Mickey Rivers 57.4

A few points to make here and there, some of which will repeat from my post over at HH:

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Comments:
maybe it's just me, but how did mike witt beat percy?
 
Starter vs. reliever.
 
Rob --

Can Bobby Grich still make the Hall via the Veterans Committee? Or has he already had his go at that? If he is still eligible for the VC, I think its time for a movement to get him into the Hall. He is certainly worthy.
 
Marc, the Veteran's Committee won't elect Ron Santo, probably the most overqualified player not in the Hall today who's run out of eligibility. Though the HoF toy says he's actually far from a lock, that actually tells you more about the failings of the Toy (and by extension, the voters) than it does about Santo. If they won't elect Santo, Grich is a mirage on the horizon. The Veteran's Committee is a sad running joke, not unlike Paris Hilton in 20 years.
 
If you pro-rated shortened seasons to 162 games, Grich would be ahead of Finley, 193.7 to 191.2. Also Chili Davis would outnose Wally Joyner (with 122.6), Percy would poke ahead of Witt (111.4), Carew would lap Glaus (108.5), Langston would leap ahead of Schofield (95.3), and DiSar would vault all the way to 32nd place (69.2).
 
Maybe. But who's to say they wouldn't have been injured or performed worse than they did for other reasons? Normalizing short seasons to 162 games introduces the same problem I have with the old argument in favor of asterisks in all records after 1961: the game changes. You've gotta roll with it.
 
i saw over at the Hardball Tinmes today that it was Chili's birthday today - and i immediately thought of the Rev's list and where he would rank and new he'd be up there.

That's one of the things i like about THT - the daily birthday's - maybe Rob or Rev could add that to your daily blogging - send out a shout out to Halo's birthdays - the Rev caught Grich's the other day, but it's a bit of trivia you can add on slow days. Anyways - both of you are doing a great job with the blogs.

P/C's report in less than a month!! I'll be there with a camera the first day, God willing, and get some pictures posted up for all to enjoy.

As for the rankings, Kingfish is my #1, with Fregosi and Nolan in my Top 5.
 
Rob --

Isn't Paris Hilton a running joke now?

I know he won't get elected, I just didn't know if he technically still had that card to play. Its really sad because the VC can't elect anyone with the way their voting system is currently setup.

I'm glad Salmon is the #1 Angel on your list by the way. Salmon and Edmonds are my two favorites, and then Chuck Finley. Chili Davis rules too, but I seem to think of him as more of a Yankee or a Twin.
 
Is Vlad currently #41? It looks like he has 56 Win Shares (so far) in an Angels uniform, according to Hardball Times. Definitely moving up the list.
 
But who's to say they wouldn't have been injured or performed worse than they did for other reasons?

No one, of course. I usually don't normalize for career totals, but I definitely do for individual seasons, so that we properly recognize Bobby Grich's 1981 as the third-best season by an Angel, and not just some solid 21-WS jobbie. For Hall of Fame arguments, I'm more concerned on players' comparative impacts on seasons & pennant races, not on the number of games played.
 
Paris Hilton's hot, and she would never give anyone posting on this blog a second look ... deal with it.
 
Guess that includes you, Anon! Deal with it!
 
Is it too early to sign Big Daddy Vladi to an extension, before salaries really get out of hand?
 
I have given that some thought. I'd wait until mid-season this year to do so, though it seems to me he's likely to decline rather rapidly.
 
I'll post my ballot as we get closer to the end (probably ten at a time or so), but I put a lot of weight on post-season accomplishments, especially 2002.

I think it's pretty interesting to look at this way, but let's not forget that the purpose of the whole thing is to win the World Series. For instance, Lackey was fairly high on my ballot, I wanna say about 20th or so. His numbers in an Angel uniform don't warrant that, but when your franchise has had one WS appearance, and you won game seven as a rookie, that deserves some recognition.

Not that I think ranking them this way is wrong by any means. Just different than I would have done (and did).
 
Gotta agree with Shredder. I'd place enormous weight on the accomplishments of the members of the 2002 team in coming up with my list of "top 40 Angels."
 

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