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Sunday, April 23, 2006 |
Esteban Lousy: Angels 4, Athletics 3
I know there are doubters, but it's hard to watch Frankie anymore and not wonder just where the train's going to stop. Today he gave a free pass to Eric Chavez, as though he were some journeyman reliever with an open base facing Albert Pujols. He got a punchout on Adam Melhuse to end the inning, but it seems he hasn't been getting strikeouts on the really big game.
A good deal of ink was spilt over the quality of the Esteban Loaiza signing, especially as it was for three years; today's game didn't provide a data point in its favor, leaving as he did after three and two-thirds. The official comment was that Loaiza left the game with a neck spasm, and so the polyvoweled Kirk Saarloos came in to prevent further damage. It did not work, though he did a workman-like job of it, only allowing one more run — the winning run.
Angels pitching, though ugly at times, managed the middle of the A's order pretty effectively; Frank Thomas didn't even get on base, and though Eric Chavez did, he never scored. In Thomas's case, you have to wonder just how long his .167 average will continue; the Angels may well have dodged a bullet on this one. Kelvim Escobar cruised through three, and then ran into trouble in the fourth, the second time through the lineup; he seemingly lost his command, walking in a bases-loaded run. But a highlight-reel play from Adam Kennedy — converting an Adam Melhuse scorcher up the middle into an inning-ending double play — pulled Escobar's chestnuts out of the fire, and really won the game for the Angels.
Speaking of AK, it's well past time I mentioned this: Chone Figgins is hitting a mere .266, and getting on base at a .313 rate. Meantime, Adam Kennedy's OBP is .400. Somebody's hitting in the wrong place.
And finally: good to see Vlad get one out of the park. More doubles would be good, too. And, it turned out I was right about Scioscia benching Kotchman.
Comments:
Kotch was given the day off, not benched. To be benched suggests a player's been removed from the lineup for an extended period, which doesn't appear to be the case here.
# posted by 
: 4/23/2006 04:45:00 PM
: 4/23/2006 04:45:00 PM
I don't understand the Frankie bashing. 7 save in 8 tries. 3 one run saves in a row. Everyone keeps waiting for him to break down. It hasn't happened yet and while it may, it sounds like many Angel fans will be glad when it does so they can say I told you so.
Personally I don't care if he walks Chavez who has been the A's second best hitter so far, as long as he keeps the lead and the Angels win.
Personally I don't care if he walks Chavez who has been the A's second best hitter so far, as long as he keeps the lead and the Angels win.
# posted by : 4/23/2006 04:51:00 PM
: 4/23/2006 04:51:00 PM
7 save in 8 tries.
And a 4.18 ERA, allowing 14 baserunners and two home runs during that time. Any other questions?
And a 4.18 ERA, allowing 14 baserunners and two home runs during that time. Any other questions?
And a 4.18 ERA, allowing 14 baserunners and two home runs during that time. Any other questions?
He also has 11 K's in 8.2 innings, which seems to contradict your assertion that he hasn't gotten the K in "the really big game." (What game have we played that was bigger than this one, incidentally?)
Besides, 3 of those 14 baserunners and 1 of those runs came in the non-save situation in Baltimore when he got a cramp. He's been fine to start the year and I'll worry about Franky getting seriously hurt when it happens.
He also has 11 K's in 8.2 innings, which seems to contradict your assertion that he hasn't gotten the K in "the really big game." (What game have we played that was bigger than this one, incidentally?)
Besides, 3 of those 14 baserunners and 1 of those runs came in the non-save situation in Baltimore when he got a cramp. He's been fine to start the year and I'll worry about Franky getting seriously hurt when it happens.
# posted by : 4/23/2006 06:49:00 PM
: 4/23/2006 06:49:00 PM
rob, already you've been second guessed on Kotch and Frankie. i'll add another one (LOL!)
AK in place of Figgy at the top of the line-up? not yet. the first inning run tonight was a thing of beauty - within two pitches to start the game, Figgy was standing on second base, and before Escobar even took the mound, he was pitching with a lead. I can't imagine AK doing that. Yesterday was the same story - Figgy scored in the 1st, and Weaver pitched with a lead the entire game that he never relinquished. so i think we keep Figgy where he is in the line-up for the time being.
and for the record, Frankie makes me nervous too, but for now, I'll simply beleive Casey had the day off.
AK in place of Figgy at the top of the line-up? not yet. the first inning run tonight was a thing of beauty - within two pitches to start the game, Figgy was standing on second base, and before Escobar even took the mound, he was pitching with a lead. I can't imagine AK doing that. Yesterday was the same story - Figgy scored in the 1st, and Weaver pitched with a lead the entire game that he never relinquished. so i think we keep Figgy where he is in the line-up for the time being.
and for the record, Frankie makes me nervous too, but for now, I'll simply beleive Casey had the day off.
Frankie was really laboring... but the A's suck so bad it was enought to beat them with!
# posted by : 4/23/2006 08:17:00 PM
: 4/23/2006 08:17:00 PM
Brian -- as the sample size grows, I'm becoming increasingly of the opinion that Mike has the wrong man at the head of the lineup. One night doesn't necessarily mean much. We're approaching a month's worth of at bats now.
And a 4.18 ERA, allowing 14 baserunners and two home runs during that time. Any other questions?
I've got one. Why do keep bitching about him when over his last three outings, he's picked up three saves, gone three and third, allowed 1 hit and two walks while striking out five?
He's allowed runs in four of nine outings. In two, he still picked up the save, and in one, the Angels had a huge lead when they brought him in.
Seriously, you're starting to sound like a broken record. Kind of like Will Carrol has sounded for three seasons now.
I've got one. Why do keep bitching about him when over his last three outings, he's picked up three saves, gone three and third, allowed 1 hit and two walks while striking out five?
He's allowed runs in four of nine outings. In two, he still picked up the save, and in one, the Angels had a huge lead when they brought him in.
Seriously, you're starting to sound like a broken record. Kind of like Will Carrol has sounded for three seasons now.
the first inning run tonight was a thing of beauty - within two pitches to start the game, Figgy was standing on second base, and before Escobar even took the mound
Not to mention, he would have drawn two walks had Doug Eddings not had his head up his ass.
Not to mention, he would have drawn two walks had Doug Eddings not had his head up his ass.
He also has 11 K's in 8.2 innings, which seems to contradict your assertion that he hasn't gotten the K in "the really big game." (What game have we played that was bigger than this one, incidentally?)
Sorry I was unclear there; what I meant was "big game" as in particular batters. That is, he can't get strikeouts against the league's top hitters. He nibbles against the likes of Eric Chavez and goes after everyone else.
Sorry I was unclear there; what I meant was "big game" as in particular batters. That is, he can't get strikeouts against the league's top hitters. He nibbles against the likes of Eric Chavez and goes after everyone else.
I've got one. Why do keep bitching about him when over his last three outings, he's picked up three saves, gone three and third, allowed 1 hit and two walks while striking out five?
Because he still has a 1.62 WHIP, meaning he's averaging worse than a baserunner and a half per inning?
Because he still has a 1.62 WHIP, meaning he's averaging worse than a baserunner and a half per inning?
A number skewed primarily by two rough outings out of nine of the approximately 60-65 that he'll make this season. You're right, the sky is falling. How could I have been so stupid?
I just find it interesting that you're practically ready to bury him on the basis of a very small sample size, yet give virtually no weight to his last three outings where he's been excellent. Lately you just sound like you've got a lot of credibility invested in his failure for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why.
I just find it interesting that you're practically ready to bury him on the basis of a very small sample size, yet give virtually no weight to his last three outings where he's been excellent. Lately you just sound like you've got a lot of credibility invested in his failure for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why.
Gee, could it be because he just hasn't been that good on the mound this year? Or do you have so much credibility invested in knocking Will Carroll that you feel obliged to ignore Rodriguez's blowups in order to prove a point? I mean, when somebody who has a reason to know complains about the guy's mechanics and tells me he's an injury waiting to happen, and then — lo and behold! — the guy starts falling apart on the mound after having similar problems last year, well, I just can't exactly call it a coincidence. The guy's K/9 continues to sink, and you're telling me everything's just dandy. I don't think so.
One more thing: his K/BB ratio is also falling (2.20). As for my alleged failure to note his recent work, I'm pointing exactly to that as a sign of decline. 2003, he goes after Chavez; this year, he pussies around outside the strike zone and walks him. No confidence. IMO there's a reason for that.
I have to agree with Seitz here. It feels like you're building up a narrative in the hopes that should Rodriguez go down, you can point to the peg in the hole and play the seer. But as invested in literary style as you are, I'm surprised you don't mind the repetition. The posts are archived afterall...yes, you've warned us, thrice and more. Every hit or walk is not a harbinger of damage, if the damage doesn't come. And should it come, you're already plenty invested, Rob.
And I'm damned surprised not a mention here of Eddings' protean strike zone. You bash Figgins, but don't even stop to mention that under regular conditions, Figgins would have had a 3 for 4 day. Two ball fours were at his clavicles. And nevermind Kennedy's endemic streakiness. For a birdwatcher, you're taking the long view less and less.
And I'm damned surprised not a mention here of Eddings' protean strike zone. You bash Figgins, but don't even stop to mention that under regular conditions, Figgins would have had a 3 for 4 day. Two ball fours were at his clavicles. And nevermind Kennedy's endemic streakiness. For a birdwatcher, you're taking the long view less and less.
# posted by : 4/23/2006 11:11:00 PM
: 4/23/2006 11:11:00 PM
Good lord, Rob, Carroll has been complaining about Frankie's mechanics since before Frankie even came up. And I have no particular reason to knock Carroll. Hell, I've met him several times, and I happen to think he's a great guy in person. You can feel free to search through all of my posts on just about any site to see how munch I've knocked Carroll in the past (hint: you won't find much). I just think that when you predict injury for someone for going on five years now, I'm not going to be all that impressed when, lo and behold, shock of all shocks, a pitcher gets injured. Especially when it's a guy who weighs a buck thirty five and throws 96. And falling apart?! He's had two bad outings, one of which was meaningless (and in which he allegedly cramped up).
And fer chrissakes, enough with "x is happening THIS YEAR!!!" stuff. It's April freaking 24th! You know enough to know that a sample size of 9 innings is pretty freaking meaningless. I'd venture to guess that for almost any pitcher in the majors, you could cherry pick a nine game stretch in which his numbers were below his career norms. Voros' law and all.
Now granted, I've seen at bats where he's been tentative. I thought he looked awful in the Mauer at bat, and went downhill from there. But it was one outing, and he's been sharp ever since. It happens. I've seen Lackey do it a ton of times. But because he's pitched around certain guys, or loses his aggressiveness from time to time, it doesn't mean he's no longer aggressive.
And fer chrissakes, enough with "x is happening THIS YEAR!!!" stuff. It's April freaking 24th! You know enough to know that a sample size of 9 innings is pretty freaking meaningless. I'd venture to guess that for almost any pitcher in the majors, you could cherry pick a nine game stretch in which his numbers were below his career norms. Voros' law and all.
Now granted, I've seen at bats where he's been tentative. I thought he looked awful in the Mauer at bat, and went downhill from there. But it was one outing, and he's been sharp ever since. It happens. I've seen Lackey do it a ton of times. But because he's pitched around certain guys, or loses his aggressiveness from time to time, it doesn't mean he's no longer aggressive.
Has Frankie had even one 1-2-3 inning this year, at least one that wasn't the product of a DP? It's pretty obvious to me, watching his pitches, that they're NOT what they were in 2003, 2004 or even early last year.
He has no control over his fastball.
His slider is moving a lot, but he's not throwing it where he needs to throw it mostly. He gets guys to strike out because the pitch is incredibly wicked.
But he's hanging a bunch. I think it was today (Sunday) that he hung one to Adam Freakin' Melhuse (I believe) that was yanked foul. But if he times his swing a tad differently, that's a game-winning HR.
Frankie was lucky.
He has no control over his fastball.
His slider is moving a lot, but he's not throwing it where he needs to throw it mostly. He gets guys to strike out because the pitch is incredibly wicked.
But he's hanging a bunch. I think it was today (Sunday) that he hung one to Adam Freakin' Melhuse (I believe) that was yanked foul. But if he times his swing a tad differently, that's a game-winning HR.
Frankie was lucky.
# posted by : 4/24/2006 12:14:00 AM
: 4/24/2006 12:14:00 AM
Has Frankie had even one 1-2-3 inning this year, at least one that wasn't the product of a DP?
Yes. The home opener, against the Yankees, April 7th. 3 batters: 2 grounders, 1 flyball.
But he's hanging a bunch. I think it was today (Sunday) that he hung one to Adam Freakin' Melhuse (I believe) that was yanked foul. But if he times his swing a tad differently, that's a game-winning HR.
After which he proceeded to strike Melhuse out looking. So much for being timid.
Yes. The home opener, against the Yankees, April 7th. 3 batters: 2 grounders, 1 flyball.
But he's hanging a bunch. I think it was today (Sunday) that he hung one to Adam Freakin' Melhuse (I believe) that was yanked foul. But if he times his swing a tad differently, that's a game-winning HR.
After which he proceeded to strike Melhuse out looking. So much for being timid.
# posted by : 4/24/2006 06:04:00 AM
: 4/24/2006 06:04:00 AM
Good lord, Rob, Carroll has been complaining about Frankie's mechanics since before Frankie even came up.
So were the Angels. In private correspondance with Stephen Smith of FutureAngels (and documented elsewhere), Frankie refused to alter his mechanics in the minors. When he (not surprisingly) finally got injured, the Angels turned him into a short reliever. The rest is history, but it's obvious he's the kind of guy you can't rely on over a 162-game season.
Richard --
After which he proceeded to strike Melhuse out looking. So much for being timid.
And I'm sure the Athletics would be thrilled if Adam Melhuse were as good a hitter as Eric Byrnes.
So were the Angels. In private correspondance with Stephen Smith of FutureAngels (and documented elsewhere), Frankie refused to alter his mechanics in the minors. When he (not surprisingly) finally got injured, the Angels turned him into a short reliever. The rest is history, but it's obvious he's the kind of guy you can't rely on over a 162-game season.
Richard --
After which he proceeded to strike Melhuse out looking. So much for being timid.
And I'm sure the Athletics would be thrilled if Adam Melhuse were as good a hitter as Eric Byrnes.
Well, the thing is, a lot of pitchers have conventionally bad deliveries. Gagne also has a bad delivery (though he benefits greatly from rarely throwing splitters or sliders anymore), and some people speculated years ago (including me) that he too was an injury waiting to happen. But it also should be said that Frankie probably doesn't produce the pace on his fastball without that delivery.
I think the caution I have with Frankie really lies in two places. And they've been pretty much there since 2003.
A) Slurve/slider power pitchers are arguably the best closers you can find. And they're also the most prone to injury. Frankie doesn't have the classic body (i.e. big legs, height) for a durable fast curve pitcher.
B) His freaky curve is based on varying the angle of his release points. Varying the release point to throw your out pitches tips off pitches, which isn't always bad, but mostly it can wreak havoc on your delivery. So, when Frankie relies too much on his breaking balls, he's letting the hitters know he's about to throw them a curve and is potentially throwing his mechanics out of wack, especially if he throws too many early on without establishing his fastball.
With that being said, Frankie does have one of the two or three sickest pitches in baseball. When hitters know exactly you'll throw, where you want to throw, and yet they STILL whiff, that's something. It's just that Scoscia will have to keep him under control. Possibly getting him to use his 2-seamer to draw groundies.
Personally, from the standpoint of stuff, I think Shields is maybe the best pure pitcher on the staff.
-- anon2
I think the caution I have with Frankie really lies in two places. And they've been pretty much there since 2003.
A) Slurve/slider power pitchers are arguably the best closers you can find. And they're also the most prone to injury. Frankie doesn't have the classic body (i.e. big legs, height) for a durable fast curve pitcher.
B) His freaky curve is based on varying the angle of his release points. Varying the release point to throw your out pitches tips off pitches, which isn't always bad, but mostly it can wreak havoc on your delivery. So, when Frankie relies too much on his breaking balls, he's letting the hitters know he's about to throw them a curve and is potentially throwing his mechanics out of wack, especially if he throws too many early on without establishing his fastball.
With that being said, Frankie does have one of the two or three sickest pitches in baseball. When hitters know exactly you'll throw, where you want to throw, and yet they STILL whiff, that's something. It's just that Scoscia will have to keep him under control. Possibly getting him to use his 2-seamer to draw groundies.
Personally, from the standpoint of stuff, I think Shields is maybe the best pure pitcher on the staff.
-- anon2
# posted by : 4/24/2006 11:38:00 AM
: 4/24/2006 11:38:00 AM
The rest is history, but it's obvious he's the kind of guy you can't rely on over a 162-game season.
Funny, it worked out last year. 45 saves in 50 chances (Not to mention 3 for 3 in the postseason) seems pretty reliable to me.
Funny, it worked out last year. 45 saves in 50 chances (Not to mention 3 for 3 in the postseason) seems pretty reliable to me.
# posted by : 4/24/2006 01:51:00 PM
: 4/24/2006 01:51:00 PMNewer› ‹Older
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