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Tuesday, September 11, 2007 |
OT: September 11
What I remember is not being able to get to CNN.com, which in those days was my primary news source. Instead, I found out about it via Slashdot (warning: HUGE page), which somehow managed to keep up long after CNN's site failed. (The BBC was pretty good, too, as I recall.)
I have lost friends since, those who bought into the Bush administration propaganda linking Saddam Hussein to September 11. Those same friends also bought the subsequent specious excuses for invading Iraq, unquestionably the greatest foreign policy mistake in this country's history. The loss of lives caused by the hijackers has been used to justify everything from "extraordinary rendition" of suspects to dungeons half a world away to the creation of an American gulag at Guantanamo Bay. It's even managed to inject a false note into every Sunday baseball game by making the overtly religious "God Bless America" into a second national anthem.
General Petraeus, a serial liar ($), has recently been called upon again to spread rank falsehoods ($) in the service of Bush's Iraq folly, telling us about improvements in that country that no independent observers have observed, i.e. by those capable of telling the difference between reality and a Potemkin village.
The good news is that Americans are more widely comprehending they're being lied to. 70% of Iraqis believe the "Surge" is failing, and Americans believe in overwhelming majorities that the Iraq quagmire needs to end, and soon. This leaves Bush supporters like the frankly hypocritical Hugh Hewitt resorting to wholesale ad hominem attacks on anyone who questions Petraeus's honesty.
So, the bogus "Operation Iraqi Freedom" becomes "Operation Run Down The Clock", and Bush and pals hope to make the problem somebody else's. What a mockery he's made of the dead in those attacks — especially with Osama bin Laden still at large. How I yearn for the days when Republicans were isolationist!
Labels: offtopic, stupid ideas
Comments:
Not being able to bring up CNN.com was my first clue that something big was happening, too. I had seen a headline that was something like "Plane Crashes in the World Trade Center" on a feed reader, but I envisioned a Cessna or something. When CNN.com wouldn't load, I turned on the TV immediately.
That Matt Welch article bugs me. One, we're not in a "war", we're in an occupation. It doesn't even resemble a war. And we're in the fifth year of it, not the fourth.
The more Welch concedes the terms to his opponent, the more prey he is to that distorted logic. If we're not in a war, and we are not (that ended after Saddam was deposed and the Baathist army disbanded), we have no reason to put tape over mouth. This is an exercise in nation-building, and that is a subject that all citizens, in a country of crumbling infrastructure and considerable consumer debt, spiraling toward economic recession, should be debating night and day. We're rebuilding the wrong country.
The more Welch concedes the terms to his opponent, the more prey he is to that distorted logic. If we're not in a war, and we are not (that ended after Saddam was deposed and the Baathist army disbanded), we have no reason to put tape over mouth. This is an exercise in nation-building, and that is a subject that all citizens, in a country of crumbling infrastructure and considerable consumer debt, spiraling toward economic recession, should be debating night and day. We're rebuilding the wrong country.
Wow! I'll rely on other sites for political opinions, thanks. Your reference to "overtly religious" and reliance on CNN and mainstream media to form your opinions says more than you could possibly write. Those 70% of people probably believe about everything that the "trusted" news stations tell them. Anyway, how bout David Wells and those Dodgers!
Why do you hate America?
Rob, hose few paragraphs you wrote, obviously tell alot about your personal being:
You are ultra liberal.
You are brainwashed.
You are politically correct.
You are an atheist.
You are devoid of logic.
You have no concept of foreign policy.
You are jealous of people that have more than you.
You are a conspiracy theorist.
You are a socialist, perhaps communist.
You refuse to believe anything that does not fit with what you *want* to believe.
I'm just shocked that anyone that could believe the things you do, would have time to devote to a game such as baseball.
I really hope you get help. Or move to a different country where you might be happier. I dont think the socialist utopia bubble, in which no one bothers you and you bother no one, will ever exist.
I do give you props. This is the first time I've ever seen a George Bush rant link 9-11, with Iraq, to singing "God Bless America" at baseball games.
Arent most liberals supposed to be tolerant of others beliefs? Why be upset at Christians whom want to sing that song? There's more of them than you. Majority rules in the US, at least thats what a democracy is all about.
Andrew--the US economy is in tremendous shape considering it is now apart of a global economy. If anything, you can consider the US defense spending as an investment in the future infrastructure of the US. If we didnt defend ourselves, our infrastucture would be in ever present danger.
Deal with it.
Rob, hose few paragraphs you wrote, obviously tell alot about your personal being:
You are ultra liberal.
You are brainwashed.
You are politically correct.
You are an atheist.
You are devoid of logic.
You have no concept of foreign policy.
You are jealous of people that have more than you.
You are a conspiracy theorist.
You are a socialist, perhaps communist.
You refuse to believe anything that does not fit with what you *want* to believe.
I'm just shocked that anyone that could believe the things you do, would have time to devote to a game such as baseball.
I really hope you get help. Or move to a different country where you might be happier. I dont think the socialist utopia bubble, in which no one bothers you and you bother no one, will ever exist.
I do give you props. This is the first time I've ever seen a George Bush rant link 9-11, with Iraq, to singing "God Bless America" at baseball games.
Arent most liberals supposed to be tolerant of others beliefs? Why be upset at Christians whom want to sing that song? There's more of them than you. Majority rules in the US, at least thats what a democracy is all about.
Andrew--the US economy is in tremendous shape considering it is now apart of a global economy. If anything, you can consider the US defense spending as an investment in the future infrastructure of the US. If we didnt defend ourselves, our infrastucture would be in ever present danger.
Deal with it.
Your reference to "overtly religious" and reliance on CNN and mainstream media to form your opinions says more than you could possibly write.
Notice the past tense in re CNN, Fiend.
You are ultra liberal.
Apparently so is the majority of the American public that wants out of Iraq. Amazing!
You are brainwashed.
Funny!
You are politically correct.
The definition of Gen. Petraeus! Never goes off script!
You are an atheist.
I just get sick of the evangelicals taking the Christ out Christianity. Like Bob Schuller, they've ruined the whole thing.
You have no concept of foreign policy.
Sure, I do, just one that doesn't itch to invade every goddamn country that looks funny at us.
You are jealous of people that have more than you.
More comedy! Based on... what?
You are a conspiracy theorist.
Nope... the administration's rush to go to war with Iraq has been well-documented, as is its hiding of vital truths about the underlying doctored intelligence.
You refuse to believe anything that does not fit with what you *want* to believe.
Pot, this is kettle, over...
Notice the past tense in re CNN, Fiend.
You are ultra liberal.
Apparently so is the majority of the American public that wants out of Iraq. Amazing!
You are brainwashed.
Funny!
You are politically correct.
The definition of Gen. Petraeus! Never goes off script!
You are an atheist.
I just get sick of the evangelicals taking the Christ out Christianity. Like Bob Schuller, they've ruined the whole thing.
You have no concept of foreign policy.
Sure, I do, just one that doesn't itch to invade every goddamn country that looks funny at us.
You are jealous of people that have more than you.
More comedy! Based on... what?
You are a conspiracy theorist.
Nope... the administration's rush to go to war with Iraq has been well-documented, as is its hiding of vital truths about the underlying doctored intelligence.
You refuse to believe anything that does not fit with what you *want* to believe.
Pot, this is kettle, over...
And for the record, I'm a libertarian, not some authoritarian jackass who brays about freedom in the morning and sends people to dungeons based only on speculation in the afternoon.
"Majority rules in the US, at least thats what a democracy is all about."
Sometimes, it is hard to argue with the Chinese governments saying that some countries are just not ready for democracy yet. Ok, seriously, that comment was a joke, wasn't it?
Sometimes, it is hard to argue with the Chinese governments saying that some countries are just not ready for democracy yet. Ok, seriously, that comment was a joke, wasn't it?
Bjoern,
Tyranny of the majority seems to be politically correct these days. People don't think too hard about the nation's reasons for existence anymore. They seem to equate democracy to majority rule and don't understand that equal protection and dissent are vital to a successful democracy, and are foundational in America.
Specifically, most folks don't realize that the nation was formed by Christians who were seeking to escape religious persecution *from other Christians,* and that Christian excess and governmental abuse of power are *exactly* what the Bill of Rights is designed to protect us all against.
Instead, they're happy to brand anyone who disagrees with the current administration as unpatriotic, when in fact one of the most patriotic things an American can do is to speak out against what they believe is government abuse of power. They quickly forget their own exercise of the exact same freedom when the president before this one was offending them, and how they would have felt if labeled unpatriotic for getting upset that the honor of the office was impugned by adultery.
Tyranny of the majority seems to be politically correct these days. People don't think too hard about the nation's reasons for existence anymore. They seem to equate democracy to majority rule and don't understand that equal protection and dissent are vital to a successful democracy, and are foundational in America.
Specifically, most folks don't realize that the nation was formed by Christians who were seeking to escape religious persecution *from other Christians,* and that Christian excess and governmental abuse of power are *exactly* what the Bill of Rights is designed to protect us all against.
Instead, they're happy to brand anyone who disagrees with the current administration as unpatriotic, when in fact one of the most patriotic things an American can do is to speak out against what they believe is government abuse of power. They quickly forget their own exercise of the exact same freedom when the president before this one was offending them, and how they would have felt if labeled unpatriotic for getting upset that the honor of the office was impugned by adultery.
"the glass if half empty"
last time i checked the standings, we are still one of the best teams in the league, .....
err, i mean we're still one of the best countries in the world.
last time i checked the standings, we are still one of the best teams in the league, .....
err, i mean we're still one of the best countries in the world.
humor aside, i will make SOME serious critique of this thread and posts:
it was my understanding 9/11 is about Islamic terrorists, so why is Christianity targetted here today.
second, on the anniversary of 9/11, anyone who's been against involvement in Iraq based on 9/11 has been telling us they aren't related at all.
but two of my favorite baseball sites have issued commentary on the anniversaty ... and its all about Iraq, not 9/11.
Save Iraq for another today - and remember its Islmaic terrorist tyrrany that's the enemy here.
it was my understanding 9/11 is about Islamic terrorists, so why is Christianity targetted here today.
second, on the anniversary of 9/11, anyone who's been against involvement in Iraq based on 9/11 has been telling us they aren't related at all.
but two of my favorite baseball sites have issued commentary on the anniversaty ... and its all about Iraq, not 9/11.
Save Iraq for another today - and remember its Islmaic terrorist tyrrany that's the enemy here.
Montgomery, the number of errors in your assumptions about Rob are too numerous to combat all of them individually.
A few, though, I'll tackle:
"You are ultra liberal...You are a socialist, perhaps communist." (Really, the same accusation twice.)
You need to study your politcal terms a bit longer. Liberals think the goverment is an instrument of social change, generally preferring big government programs such as Medicare and Social Security . Rob is expressly against big government programs like those. He simply applies the same standard to the Republicans as he does to the Democrats: Less Government, All of the time. This *used* to be a tenet of the Republican party, by the way, before they decided the US Armed Forces should be an instrument of social change.
"You are politically correct."
Actually, until a couple or three years ago, support for the war in Iraq *was* politically correct. Rob was against the invasion and occupation from the beginning, and has not swayed with any political tide. Also, he was and is in favor of the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. (The difference being, of course, that someone in Afghanistan actually had a lot to do with 9/11, and the Taliban was sheltering them.)
"You refuse to believe anything that does not fit with what you *want* to believe."
Have you asked Rob about Peak Oil lately? He really doesn't *want* to believe in that, I assure you.
The rest of your contentions are ridiculous assumptions, "jealous of people that have more than you," "conspiracy theorist.," and baseless personal attacks, "no concept of foreign policy," "brainwashed," that are designed to strengthen your arguments by blunt force, not actual logic, truth, or reasoned debate. As such they should be dismissed by anyone who is interested in civilized discussion.
However, I will give you this, he is an athiest.
A few, though, I'll tackle:
"You are ultra liberal...You are a socialist, perhaps communist." (Really, the same accusation twice.)
You need to study your politcal terms a bit longer. Liberals think the goverment is an instrument of social change, generally preferring big government programs such as Medicare and Social Security . Rob is expressly against big government programs like those. He simply applies the same standard to the Republicans as he does to the Democrats: Less Government, All of the time. This *used* to be a tenet of the Republican party, by the way, before they decided the US Armed Forces should be an instrument of social change.
"You are politically correct."
Actually, until a couple or three years ago, support for the war in Iraq *was* politically correct. Rob was against the invasion and occupation from the beginning, and has not swayed with any political tide. Also, he was and is in favor of the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. (The difference being, of course, that someone in Afghanistan actually had a lot to do with 9/11, and the Taliban was sheltering them.)
"You refuse to believe anything that does not fit with what you *want* to believe."
Have you asked Rob about Peak Oil lately? He really doesn't *want* to believe in that, I assure you.
The rest of your contentions are ridiculous assumptions, "jealous of people that have more than you," "conspiracy theorist.," and baseless personal attacks, "no concept of foreign policy," "brainwashed," that are designed to strengthen your arguments by blunt force, not actual logic, truth, or reasoned debate. As such they should be dismissed by anyone who is interested in civilized discussion.
However, I will give you this, he is an athiest.
Brian, as usual, you are a voice of reason. Thank you for that.
Unfortunately, the administration has worked long and hard to not only ally themselves with the Christian Right, but to link 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. Sadly, the four things have become intertwined, politicizing the tragedy that occurred six years ago to a sickening degree.
Unfortunately, the administration has worked long and hard to not only ally themselves with the Christian Right, but to link 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. Sadly, the four things have become intertwined, politicizing the tragedy that occurred six years ago to a sickening degree.
it was my understanding 9/11 is about Islamic terrorists, so why is Christianity targetted here today.
And you're trying to narrow the scope of Rob's address why? Certain customs at baseball stadiums changed after 9/11, and that impacts the secular among us. The topic is apt, and Rob's allowed to complain as much as he likes.
on the anniversary of 9/11, anyone who's been against involvement in Iraq based on 9/11 has been telling us they aren't related at all. but two of my favorite baseball sites have issued commentary on the anniversaty ... and its all about Iraq, not 9/11.
Oh, c'mon. This is completely unreasonable. The Administration has forcibly conflated the issues of 9/11 and the Iraq occupation, so you think that critics of the effort to conflate the two shouldn't acknowledge that they've been conflated? Talk about policing a paradox.
If the executive branch of government is going to use 9/11 as an argument to sustain an occupation five years later, nearly 4000 deaths and half a trillion dollars on, critics of that effort are perfectly on point to talk about Iraq in the context of 9/11 six years later.
And you're trying to narrow the scope of Rob's address why? Certain customs at baseball stadiums changed after 9/11, and that impacts the secular among us. The topic is apt, and Rob's allowed to complain as much as he likes.
on the anniversary of 9/11, anyone who's been against involvement in Iraq based on 9/11 has been telling us they aren't related at all. but two of my favorite baseball sites have issued commentary on the anniversaty ... and its all about Iraq, not 9/11.
Oh, c'mon. This is completely unreasonable. The Administration has forcibly conflated the issues of 9/11 and the Iraq occupation, so you think that critics of the effort to conflate the two shouldn't acknowledge that they've been conflated? Talk about policing a paradox.
If the executive branch of government is going to use 9/11 as an argument to sustain an occupation five years later, nearly 4000 deaths and half a trillion dollars on, critics of that effort are perfectly on point to talk about Iraq in the context of 9/11 six years later.
that's my point - the anti-Iraq effort camp complains about linking Iraq with 9/11, but today's 9/11 'rememberances'are diatribes against Iraq. Ironic.
i just think today is a day to remember 9/11 and Islamo-terrorists. cease the Iraq and Christianity critiques for the other 364 days if you want.
It's kind of like taking Christmas day as the opportunity to vent with everything one finds wrong about the Christian faith.
i just think today is a day to remember 9/11 and Islamo-terrorists. cease the Iraq and Christianity critiques for the other 364 days if you want.
It's kind of like taking Christmas day as the opportunity to vent with everything one finds wrong about the Christian faith.
I think I get what you're aiming for, Brian. In general, I have no problems with Christianity except to the extent that they try to inject their particular biases into my government. That is why I object to standing for "God Bless America".
As to complaining about Iraq, well, of course. It's exactly like the old joke about the drunk looking for his car keys under a light pole: "But officer, the light's better here!" Iraq had nothing to do with September 11, but Osama bin Laden remains at large in the mountainous hinterlands of Pakistan and/or Afghanistan. Why shouldn't I complain about that, considering how much more effort has been wrongly expended in pursuing a country that hadn't actually harmed us?
As to complaining about Iraq, well, of course. It's exactly like the old joke about the drunk looking for his car keys under a light pole: "But officer, the light's better here!" Iraq had nothing to do with September 11, but Osama bin Laden remains at large in the mountainous hinterlands of Pakistan and/or Afghanistan. Why shouldn't I complain about that, considering how much more effort has been wrongly expended in pursuing a country that hadn't actually harmed us?
Like Welch's column, i object most to the timing rather than the content itself. you do reference Bin Laden still at large which is a valid point on 9/11.
however, the religion to discuss on 9/11 isn't Christianity, its militant islam. This was streotypical Iraq clomun i see pretty much every day and can agre with most of the points.
Take 9/11 to honor the fallen from the NYFD and the brave Americans on Flight 93 - i wouldn't have blinked twice to see a column like yours and Matt's the other 364 days of the year.
however, the religion to discuss on 9/11 isn't Christianity, its militant islam. This was streotypical Iraq clomun i see pretty much every day and can agre with most of the points.
Take 9/11 to honor the fallen from the NYFD and the brave Americans on Flight 93 - i wouldn't have blinked twice to see a column like yours and Matt's the other 364 days of the year.
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