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Sunday, June 18, 2006 |
Lather, Rinse, Repeat: Two Games
Padres 7, Angels 3
The Angels can't score and they can't field (I'm talkin' to you, Maicer Izturis). Bartolo Colon got two earned runs, but nearly every single one of his outs was hard hit. He's going to get killed next time he faces anything like a real offense.Meanwhile, back in Salt Lake, for those of you who thought the Angels made a mistake on Friday by sending down Jered Weaver, that same pitcher gave up five runs, four earned, on eleven hits, including three home runs. I'll give him 3-4 more starts to decide whether he's descended into craptacularity like his brother, but it's hardly a good sign.
Oakland 5, Dodgers 2
Aaron Sele sucks. Is there more that needs to be said?
Comments:
I know. On the other hand, one of the knocks about his brother was an inability to handle tough situations mentally. Jeff used to yell at his outfield when they couldn't make plays, and we saw him do that on Friday, too.
It doesn't matter if he gave up 40 runs in the 1st at Salt Lake. His ML ERA was 1.37. He stays in any oganization not run by cretins.
# posted by 
: 6/18/2006 05:54:00 PM
: 6/18/2006 05:54:00 PM
Did the Angels make a mistake in sending Jered down or not? The answer is either "yes" or "no." You don't get the benefit of hindsight by waiting until he makes four or five starts. You can second guess them all you want but hindsight is always 20-20. Making a stand before or concurrent with the news adds much more credibility, even if it means you might be wrong from time to time.
# posted by : 6/18/2006 07:12:00 PM
: 6/18/2006 07:12:00 PM
Maybe you think I'm hedging my bets by saying I understand both sides here, but if you must know, I was leaning toward leaving him in before he got sent down. I also think Scioscia's right, he isn't a finished product.
You want a strong opinion? How about this: if Weaver wants a major league job, he can pitch like it.
And there's something both you and Rich are missing, too:
1) There's $24M (plus about $6M for this year) worth of sunk costs in Colon the Angels have to find out whether they're going to get any value on this year. That is only going to happen if he gets starts.
2) I see no value in demoting Kelvim Escobar to the bullpen, not when he's the second-best pitcher (by ERA) on the team.
3) Jeff Weaver is turning his season around. Kicking him out of the rotation at this point would be senseless.
4) Sometimes you have to accept a demotion for reasons that have nothing to do with your performance. Translated, Weaver needs to man up and deal. I don't see Howie Kendrick moping around Salt Lake with a .225 average.
1) There's $24M (plus about $6M for this year) worth of sunk costs in Colon the Angels have to find out whether they're going to get any value on this year. That is only going to happen if he gets starts.
2) I see no value in demoting Kelvim Escobar to the bullpen, not when he's the second-best pitcher (by ERA) on the team.
3) Jeff Weaver is turning his season around. Kicking him out of the rotation at this point would be senseless.
4) Sometimes you have to accept a demotion for reasons that have nothing to do with your performance. Translated, Weaver needs to man up and deal. I don't see Howie Kendrick moping around Salt Lake with a .225 average.
What's bizarre about it? He's been demoted; he shouldn't be surrendering a bunch of homers, but he did, and on top of it 11 hits and only a pair of K's. It's very atypical, yes, but it seems like Rich and a number of other people are complaining that I'm trying to make out Jered to be Jeff when Little Weaver isn't, in fact, Jeff. Fair enough. But if he starts exhibiting the same kind of tendencies Jeff does when under stress, well....
But Rob, even Cy Young lost on occasion. Everyone loses on occasion. It's unfair (and foolish, really) to ready anything into one bad appearance, because everyone has them. If he has a string of them, then you can be concerned. Right now, this is one bad outing and nothing more.
# posted by : 6/19/2006 01:36:00 AM
: 6/19/2006 01:36:00 AM
Remember what I said about groundballs?
Yeah, you post all the time about ground balls and fly balls. Mostly when talking about Weaver, you post about "fly ball outs". Problem is, you seem to way to much importance on the first two words, and not enough on the last one. Peripherals are important, but they shouldn't overshadow the results. Some guys defy the prototypical career paths.
As far as yelling at his fielders, someone should be yelling at them. They suck.
I'm with Rich. It was a indefinsible decision. He could give up 10 runs a game for his next 20 starts in AAA and it would still be an indefensible decision.
And thanks for the link.
Yeah, you post all the time about ground balls and fly balls. Mostly when talking about Weaver, you post about "fly ball outs". Problem is, you seem to way to much importance on the first two words, and not enough on the last one. Peripherals are important, but they shouldn't overshadow the results. Some guys defy the prototypical career paths.
As far as yelling at his fielders, someone should be yelling at them. They suck.
I'm with Rich. It was a indefinsible decision. He could give up 10 runs a game for his next 20 starts in AAA and it would still be an indefensible decision.
And thanks for the link.
Rob, You change your tune on players game-by-game. I could go back and quote you if you'd like but here's a quick summary off the top of my head:
1) You were "for" keeping Weaver in the rotation, calling him the Angels' best pitcher over the last month.
2) You were "against" Colon after his last rehab outing.
3) You have been "against" Jeff Weaver although are now in typical form coming around to him.
4) You even concurred with me that going to a six-man rotation would be a good idea.
5) You have compared Jered to Jeff repeatedly. His delivery, his first MLB, the misplay in the field, his attitude, and on and on.
To say that I'm missing your points is ludicrous. You're not making a point. You're only dancing around a bunch of points after the fact. There is ZERO value in that as anybody can be right with the benefit of hindsight.
Sorry to come across so strong but I can't allow you to re-spin things in your favor the way you have become accustomed to doing.
1) You were "for" keeping Weaver in the rotation, calling him the Angels' best pitcher over the last month.
2) You were "against" Colon after his last rehab outing.
3) You have been "against" Jeff Weaver although are now in typical form coming around to him.
4) You even concurred with me that going to a six-man rotation would be a good idea.
5) You have compared Jered to Jeff repeatedly. His delivery, his first MLB, the misplay in the field, his attitude, and on and on.
To say that I'm missing your points is ludicrous. You're not making a point. You're only dancing around a bunch of points after the fact. There is ZERO value in that as anybody can be right with the benefit of hindsight.
Sorry to come across so strong but I can't allow you to re-spin things in your favor the way you have become accustomed to doing.
# posted by : 6/19/2006 07:13:00 AM
: 6/19/2006 07:13:00 AM
Rich -- quoting John Maynard Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" Before his demotion, I was indeed in favor of Weaver's staying in the rotation, and leaving Bart to make at least one more minor league rehab start. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with Weaver's demotion, but I do think it's not indefensible, either. Furthermore, such a course of action was unlikely to take place; the MLB Basic Agreement prohibits rehab stints longer than 20 days, and Bart's first start was on June 1; at best, they could have made him throw another one yesterday, but then they'd be back to the same old problem.
I don't know why you are explaining the MLB Basic Agreement re rehab stints to me. I'm not the one who thought Colon should continue on that path.
As it relates to John Maynard Keynes' quote, the (real) facts don't change as often as your opinions. Even good hitters and pitchers have bad games all the time. Heck, the good ones even have bad weeks that can lead to a bad month. It happens. It's part of the game. But the value or worth of a player doesn't fluctuate as much as their daily performance. Judging players game-by-game or outing-by-outing prevents you from seeing the forest for the trees as Matt so eloquently illustrated.
It's your blog. Go ahead and have the last word.
As it relates to John Maynard Keynes' quote, the (real) facts don't change as often as your opinions. Even good hitters and pitchers have bad games all the time. Heck, the good ones even have bad weeks that can lead to a bad month. It happens. It's part of the game. But the value or worth of a player doesn't fluctuate as much as their daily performance. Judging players game-by-game or outing-by-outing prevents you from seeing the forest for the trees as Matt so eloquently illustrated.
It's your blog. Go ahead and have the last word.
# posted by : 6/19/2006 08:14:00 AM
: 6/19/2006 08:14:00 AMNewer› ‹Older
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